Tuesday, August 2, 2011

PUA Methods Create Little Attraction If At All

If someone appears more successful using PUA methods it is because those methods got them out of their "shell", so to speak. It is like a placebo effect, or like drinking lots of alcohol, where it gets you to take risks and do things you normally wouldn't (such as approach a lot). But at least with alcohol no one says that it's the alcohol that makes you more attractive to women, it's what the alcohol got you to do that made you more attractive. PUA methods at best create a variety of delivery paths for your personality, which can bring out your personality more. But it's like training wheels, basically, and that's assuming it doesn't fuck you up in the process, which it usually does.

Probably the most useful PUA concept that has any measurable validity is the concept of social proof. It is true that if girls see you as a popular guy from a distance, your attractiveness will increase a bit in their eyes. But this is in addition to you already looking attractive to them, appearance wise, and then the social proof will help a bit. But those same girls also have to be receptive to meeting you for anything to happen. I've been in many situations where I had social proof (i.e. I was chatting up women and even occasionally making out with one of them), but other girls in that environment still acted indifferent towards me. At most they would look at me with curiosity and even some jealousy, but nothing more than that would happen. Time and time again I would see that socializing with the ladies (and even the men) almost always did nothing to help me hook up with other females in that particular environment (e.g. bar or club). Furthermore, I also made a habit of observing other guys who appeared socially proofed. For example, maybe they were with their hot girl friends or appeared very social and outgoing. I still didn't see them receive significantly more attention from other women than the guy who is just standing in a corner by himself. At most they would get looks from girls, and maybe a small amount of opportunity would present itself that wouldn't otherwise, but other than that social proof is hardly the powerful thing it's made out to be. And in my mind the reason for that is this: Girls need to be receptive to meeting men in that environment otherwise nothing works. You can be attractive, socially proofed, outgoing, preselected and none of that will matter in that environment if the women are not open to meeting men. And the irony is, if in the presence of social proof you are successful then you will also be successful without social proof, meaning that the women in that environment are receptive to meeting men.

Attraction and the desire to act on that attraction BOTH need to be present for social proof to work. And attraction itself is generated by a combination of your looks, mannerisms, and how you speak. This is independent of the use of PUA methods, excluding the placebo effect of course.

DHV doesn't work either. And neither does qualifying, negging, push/pull, cocky & funny, and NLP. At most these things can enhance attraction and/or interest a bit but they are completely ineffectual with women who have zero interest in getting to know you. And if a woman doesn't want to get to know you it is practically impossible to change that since it is something entirely within her own control and not yours, something PUAs don't like to hear.

Related Post: Making Yourself More Attractive To Women


Mark said...

I agree with this. I mean, if you are confident with yourself and comfortable, why do you need a "wing woman" or other crutch? The girl will find out sooner or later that you went through all that effort. I think that the process of building social proof is good though, as it (again) teaches you to get out of your shell and be around pretty girls more comfortably.

AlekNovy said...

Great post! I often use the placebo point too when dicussing why "game works" for some guys.

One other analogy that's useful is comparing it to a fad-diet or say veganism.

A person says "My cholesterol lowered and I lost weight, omg veganism works it works it works!!"

Well, the reason your cholesterol lowered and you lost a bunch of weight is simply because you ate more vegetables and less calories.

You could have just the same amount of calories of junk-food (+vegetables) and you would have gotten the same result.

PermanentGuest said...

Also useful to note that none of these are inherently "PUA concepts" but rather long-standing concepts dressed up in fancy names.

The biggest problem occurs when men forget about their aim and focus on perfecting these techniques to get women.

Anonymous said...

Well of course you're right about the female being receptive which is what I'm always telling these beta guys. They simply do not want to admit to themselves that certain negatives like being short for example are almost impossible to overcome. Appearance is the #1 thing that influences people long before you even open your mouth. And contrary to what most people believe it is the female who is influenced more than he male but outward appearance.

Alain said...

I liked reading your post, but I don't agree.
Have you tried PUA, really?
don’t read junk people write in twenty bucks eBooks, I want you to go now and order some stuff of real social dynamics and follow it to the letter.
Your success level will go up dramatically and you will have so much self confidence.

John said...

Oh I tried PUA believe me, in fact I created an entire blog (http://crazydatingstories.blogspot.com/) which painstakingly shows how I came to reject PUA stuff.

Anonymous said...

Look, honestly, and this is to the writer, so it doesn't really matter to me whether you allow this post to show or not, but you must realize that the Mystery school of thought is pure gold, and if you think otherwise then you either don't get it, or you don't want to get it. I read these posts about guys "fighting" the PUA scene and I just laughed. Okay, some PUAs are retarded. That is very, very true, but you have to realize that some of these guys know what they are talking about. They have gone out and learned this stuff, and THEN backward engineered it. They are not gurus. The BEST guys are the ones who have been through it to figure it out. They only started teaching it after they figured it out. The unfortunate thing about the PUA scene is that most of the PUAs nowadays have learned this stuff from the older PUAs, and they end up being less adept at it with a lot less insightful information to give to those who wish to get the girl they've always wanted. Stop hating so much on PUAs. The stuff works, and I have tried it over and over, and OVER AND OVER, and I get the same reactions CONSISTENTLY! If you don't, then you're doing something wrong. I don't know why I just went on a rant. Maybe it's because it's 6:23 A.M. and I just came back from a long cruise with this girl I picked up a while back and I still feel like talking. Peace out.

Anonymous said...

DHV doesn't work either. And neither does qualifying, negging, push/pull, cocky & funny, and NLP.

SERIOUSLY?! Bro, you are really retarded. I just finished reading the post, and after reading that I see that you know nothing.

Lol. peace

John said...

Almost all guys lauding Mystery Method or whatever PUA method do so based on how good the theory sounds, not on what they discovered personally from first hand experience. And when someone comes along saying that it doesn't work nearly as well as depicted then those SAME people say that that must be false because it goes against the integrity of the theory (which they believe to be true).

Experimenter: I tried it and it doesn't work, or works marginally at best.

Theorist: That can't be true... (insert whatever justification based on what he heard, read, or how it can't be true because the theory seems sound).

Experimenter: Well it doesn't work, I tried it.

Theorist: No way man, it was reversed engineered. These guys went out and tried it. The stuff works!

Experimenter: Well I tried it over and over and from experience I find it doesn't work.

Theorist: Well then you must be doing something wrong.

The moral here is that support for PUA methods almost always comes from BELIEF generated by how GOOD the theory sounds and the AUTHORITARIAN way it comes across. But that is in NO WAY a proof of its validity.

You say you got "consistent" reactions from girls using PUA methods. That tells me nothing and sounds kind of like a weasel phrase PUAs use to hint at success without actually saying they are successful. But to be fair I got consistent reactions too back in the day using some PUA stuff, BUT they almost NEVER went anywhere (beyond some brief fun conversation). That part was the consistent part, the not getting anywhere part.

Anonymous said...

Bro, I totally agree with you 100%. I used to be one of those guys that firmly believed my success with women will go up If only I came up with the most interesting routine or that shit they talk about in the PUA culture. But the truth is I could run a routine, feel good inside, but NEVER got a number, not even ONCE. In fact, since sir ditching the whole PUA thing, I have gotten two girls on separate occasions ask ME to take THEIR numbers, all by having the mentality that I was there to talk to the girls, being friendly (IF they are being fun and friendly to me..... I no longer go out of my way to impress a girl with routines and all that PUA nonsense). Just have confidence, a playful disposition and rewarding a girl for being pleasant and fun, and that takes one a long way. I am glad I ran into your posts my man, because at one time I was so FU**ED up with all that PUA bullsh** I became what the PUA society would call a "social robot". No more.

Unknown said...

Typical PUA responce to criticism. Engage your opponent with logical fallacies and weasel statements, and finish up with nonesnece about some hot girl waiting for you in the other way. It would be nice if just for once you could engage us skeptics with some real evidence to validate your claims rather go on a rant about how awesome PUA is.

Skeptic101 said...

You know what would be nice. If for once you PUA fanboys could engage us skeptics while providing real evidence to back your claims, rather than just going on some trolling equipped with logical fallacies on the internet.